Calming the Chaos and be More Productive – Jackie Woodside
What you will hear in our discussion with Jackie Woodside:
Always Feel Behind?
How to Calm the Chaos and be More Productive
What Causes Stress Anyway?
Ready to STOP Being Overwhelmed?
The Downfall of the “Driven” Personality
A Coach and Speaker’s Struggles and Success
Got a Message to Share? An Author, Coach’s Story
“If you’re a ‘yes’ to everything, you will be a ‘no’ to your peace of mind”
[su_spacer size=”30″]
[soundcloud url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/209318610″ params=”auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true” width=”100%” height=”450″ iframe=”true” /]
[su_spacer size=”30″]
[su_accordion][su_spoiler title=”Full Transcript”]
Joel: Joining us on the show is licensed psychotherapist and best selling author, Jackie Woodside. Jackie, this is the first time we have done a relaunch together. Welcome, welcome to today’s show.
[00:12] Jackie Woodside: Hey, thank you. It’s awesome to be here with you both.
[00:14] Joel: This is going to be fun, and you know Jackie, this show is highly practical, because it is all about the relaunch and how you did it. And it’s also about becoming known in your niche, again, how you did it. So, I’m looking forward to learning some things from you today. And we have all experienced many launches and relaunches throughout our lives and I generally ask our guests to zero in on the relaunch that has been the most transformational for them, and then we just unfold the story from there. And we’ll do that with you here in just a few minutes, but if it’s okay with you, if we can start off the show with a quick piece of takeaway gold, if you will.
[00:59] Joel: Now you have two wonderful books out. You have, let’s see, ‘What If It’s Time for a Change’ is one of them, and the book that I’m holding in my hands here… Let’s see, I don’t think people can hear that, but I’m ruffling, shuffling pages. It’s called ‘Calming the Chaos’. And in ‘Calming the Chaos’, you start off almost immediately by debunking this time and stress management myth, that people have been told, and it’s been repeated over and over again in seminars, in training, and things of that nature. So, you debunk that myth right on, right from the start. And then, you talk about the how-tos of mastering and managing your energy. So, let me just ask you this right from the get go, Jackie: From your perspective, what would you say is the biggest misunderstanding that people have when it comes to time or stress management, and then also, give us the scoop on energy management. Go.
[02:01] Jackie Woodside: Awesome. Things I like to talk about. So, the myth of time management is really funny. So, the myth of time management is that there is no such thing. You can’t manage time.
[02:12] Joel: I agree.
[02:13] Jackie Woodside: You and I are gonna be here, having this chat for 45 minutes or an hour, that 45 minutes or an hour, that time is gonna go regardless of what we do. We could tell bad jokes. We could lay back and take a nap, or we could sit here and get engaged in some interesting facts and storytelling, and new ways of seeing things, and that’s the variable. The variable is not time. The variable is, what are you gonna do with the time you have? What choices are you gonna make? What decisions are you gonna make? How are you gonna align with what’s important to you, inside of the time that you have? So, people say, “Oh, I don’t have time, I don’t have.” Err, so not true. What’s true is that, you may not be managing yourself in time, in a way that gives you the experience of life that you wanna have. So, my whole thing is about debunking the myth of time management, but teaching a solid way of self-management, which is really where it’s at, energy management. And the same thing is true of stress, and people say, “Oh, I’m so stressed, I’m so stressed.” Well, stress isn’t like a cold that you catch, stress is your bio-physiological response to your external circumstances. And it’s not to say that people don’t often have challenging circumstances, I certainly have had a lot of them myself.
[03:23] Jackie Woodside: But really, when you learn to manage your energy rather than focusing on the externals, focusing on the internals, you recognize that you’re able to dance with the rhythms of life, rather than be pushed and pulled around by life, feeling this stress response to what’s happening around you. So, there is a stress response, but there is really… Stress isn’t something you get like a cold.
[03:48] Joel: I got you, Pei?
[03:49] Pei: I see a pattern here, Jackie. It’s almost like, we don’t manage time. We don’t manage stress. We actually manage us.
[03:58] Jackie Woodside: We manage us?
[03:59] Pei: Yeah, I like that.
[04:00] Jackie Woodside: People are so externally oriented, like if there’s… If there’s a problem in me, I’m gonna look out here to fix it. [chuckle]
[04:09] Jackie Woodside: Like, “It’s your problem,” and, “I’d be okay if my boss was this way, or my spouse was that way, or my next spouse was this way.” Or, the geographical cure, “I’d be happy if I was on the East Coast… No, I’d be happy if I was on the West Coast.”
[04:20] Joel: You know what your story reminds me of? In my first book, the ‘One Woman’s Journey’ book. Pei, you might remember this. I wrote a story about a man who was looking…
[04:32] Pei: The keys.
[04:33] Joel: Yeah, he was looking for his car keys under a street light, and he was kind of fishing around in the bushes, it was dark, but there was a little bit of light coming. And then the neighbor came over and said, “Hey, what are you doing?” He said, “Well, I’m looking for my keys.” So, he got down on his hands and knees, and started searching the ground and feeling around for them along with the other person. Then finally, the guy kind of got up on his knees and scratched his head, and said, “Well, where did you lose your keys?” And the guy said, “Well, I lost them inside in the house.” And then he said, “Well, you lost them inside in the house, in the dark? And you’re looking for them out here?” And he said, “Well, how come?” He said, “Well, because this is the only place I can get any light.” And looking for something on the outside that was misplaced or not found yet on the inside, well, it’s kind of like that analogy of looking for your keys in somewhere that you didn’t lose them.
[05:34] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s exactly it. We’re locating the problem somewhere out there, with our job, or a commute, or a spouse, or whatever. The issue is me, how am I interpreting, perceiving, responding to, holding attitudes about, holding beliefs about, all of these things that are happening outside of me, and everybody says, “Oh, yeah, yeah, that’s why it’s so great.” And then. It’s like we’re a fish in the water and we don’t even know that that’s the water that we’re swimming in, to see things in a very externalized fashion.
[06:08] Joel: Okay. So these are great concepts and I bet they are related to your relaunch, and the one that you’re going to share with us on today’s show. So why don’t we just decide where… What relaunch do we need to zero in on and then we can dovetail in some of these wonderful concepts that you’re already covering and that you also cover, in the two books.
[06:32] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, sure. It’s great. This book, ‘Calming the Chaos’, in some ways is kind of the story of what saved my life, honestly. And learning how to manage my personal energy rather than my time and one of the relaunches that I had to deal with, was dealing with a lot of emotional and physical challenges. So I guess the first place was going to see an acupuncturist, for a repetitive motion injury. And after he assessed me, he brought me aside, and he’s like, ‘yeah, you know I can help you with this tendinitis you’ve got.’ But that’s not the problem. The problem is that your life force energy is incredibly low for someone your age. And if you don’t deal with that, you’re probably not gonna live very long.
[07:18] Pei: Wow. Now did you…
[07:20] Joel: So the initial reaction to that was?
[07:23] Pei: Yeah.
[07:24] Jackie Woodside: Oh, I was floored. Even when I…
[07:26] Pei: Did you believe him? Did you believe what he said? Did you feel…
[07:31] Jackie Woodside: He went on to say like… He kind of went on in a nanosecond and described my personality. He’s like, ‘you’re really driven and type A, and you’re not the kind to sit back.’ So the fact that he then kind of backed up what he said, with a lot about, kind of how I am in the world, or how I used to be, and was able to kind of pin one on me right away. It got my attention. I don’t know. I only saw the guy a few more times after that, but it certainly got my attention.
[08:02] Pei: Did you feel any fatigue at that time? I know you went in to see this problem with your arm. But overall, did you experience any other physical symptoms?
[08:16] Jackie Woodside: Well the physical symptoms in my arm were pretty severe. So it’s hard to say if I would feel fatigue, ’cause I really was really… I was very driven. And I didn’t ever really attune to my body so I probably felt fatigued if I’d slow down long enough to feel it. You know what I mean? [laughter]
[08:37] Jackie Woodside: But I didn’t. And so, I honestly believe that, that symptom, of… I don’t know this sounds dramatic, but killing myself, manifested in it was my right arm. And I couldn’t pick up a coffee cup. I couldn’t write with a pen. I couldn’t shake hands. I couldn’t pick up a book. I could barely raise it above my head. And at the time, I was working as a manager in a program with deaf people, so I was using American sign language, all day, everyday. And I had my right arm mostly in a sling. Or my right wrist was immobilized. It was bad. So I don’t know if I felt fatigued per se, but if I didn’t, it’s because I just didn’t slow down enough to tune in. [laughter]
[09:25] Jackie Woodside: I know it’s kind of sad to say. And then from there, very soon after that, all my friends were always all over me about, like my attention, and ‘you’re so driven and you need to slow down. You’ve got ADD.’ And this is around the time that adult ADD became a big thing, Attention Deficit Disorder. So here in Massachusetts, we have actually the center, by the man who founded the adult ADD movement, Attention Deficit Disorder Movement, Ned Hallowell. So I went to the Hallowell Center for Attention Deficit Treatment and Diagnosis, And I was in fact diagnosed with adult attention deficit disorder, and was put on Adderall medication to deal with that. So between this, acupuncture is telling me I’m gonna die. And a specialist telling me I have ADD this…
[10:11] Pei: Everybody find a problem for you huh?
[10:13] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, everybody’s got a problem for me. So then, I actually went through several years later, but dealing with ADD and dealing with these injuries. Then I went into a period of clinical depression. So I was like, alright. This is not looking so good. I’m on anti-depressants. I’m on Adderall and I still have this repetitive motion injury. And so I went away various times for like silent retreats and I asked for direction, and what can I do. And I really believe in spiritual guidance. I do believe that we do get the wisdom that we need when we ask for it. So I kind of got this download fundamentally of the program that I taught for several years, before writing this book. It’s the program that this book is based on.
[10:57] Jackie Woodside: And it is all about learning to manage your energy, rather than manage your time and stress. And as we get in, I’ll tell you about the principles of the book. But it sounds so kind of trite and whatnot, but I really mean it. It changed my life. So I’m still very actively engaged in life. I’m an author, I’m a mom, I play sports, I have my own business, I own two homes. So I’m not like, sitting back on the sidelines thinking about life. I’m actively engaged. But I’m engaged from a place of passion and mission and purpose, rather than from a place of like having to survive. Or having to prove something, or that egoic place of either fear or driven anxiety. That’s gone. Replaced by a sense of depth, of life and connection with a deeper part of myself.
[11:49] Pei: Wow. Gosh. That’s such a different person than back when you were suffering from both…
[11:56] Joel: She was in a sling.
[11:58] Pei: Yeah, yeah. And… [11:59] Jackie Woodside: Yeah.
[12:00] Pei: Was that diagnosis with clinical depression your final straw, that’s when you’re like, “I can’t go on the same way and just keep taking all these medications.”
[12:15] Jackie Woodside: It was that, combined with becoming a mother. I kind of became a mom a little bit later in life. I knew that I was depressed. I knew that the medications were doing okay. But I remember it like it was yesterday, it was one evening and I was really struggling emotionally, and I read this article in some parent’s magazine, about the impact of motherhood depression on children. And I was just like, “I’m not gonna let this win. I’m not gonna let this have me. I know there’s a way through faith, and through energy, and through what I teach in energetic consciousness.” I was already really getting into those principles, hadn’t written a book on it, obviously.
[12:58] Jackie Woodside: But, that really was the turning point for me, when I was like, “I need to devote my life, honestly I need to devote my life to this.” I was a psycho-therapist at the time, I closed my clinical practice, and I went full-time into being an author, and a spiritual teacher, and an empowerment teacher. I’ve been a coach for 20 years at the time. So, I went full-time into coaching, speaking, authoring, writing, and I’ve been teaching spiritually-oriented empowerment seminars, and doing leadership training, and writing books ever since.
[13:31] Joel: Okay. I’m gonna ask you this. We’re gonna take a minute to hear from our sponsor. But, I wanna ask you when we come back, Jackie, what were some of the things that you either learned or re-learned about your own value, potential and your possibilities? And I’ll let you process that. And while you’re doing that, I wanna talk to you about today’s promotional partner, MyVirtualSalesforce.com. Owning a business has many challenges, but managing a marketing and salesforce doesn’t have to be one of them. Brandon Schaefer and the team at MyVirtualSalesforce.com does the heavy-lifting for you by hiring, training, and equipping the sales and marketing pros that bring in what every entrepreneur needs: More leads and more sales. Bernard and his team even take care of the health care coverage. So, do yourself and your business a favor. Outsource your worry and give MyVirtualSalesforce a try. They’ll put together a strategic sales and marketing plan, tailored to your needs and goals, and they will help you get back really what you need. And that is, your time back. Again, MyVirtualSalesforce.com. Alright, Jackie, what do you got for us?
[15:01] Jackie Woodside: Wow. Such a great question. So, ask it again. Go ahead and put it in my head, and let’s get connected.
[15:07] Joel: Sure. What did you learn or re-learn… As you were moving forward, you were coming out of depression, you were probably being, and I wasn’t there being reminded of some things about you, and you were probably learning for the first time some things about your possibilities, your potential, and your value, the value that you had to bring to yourself, your family and the world. So, my question is, what are some of those things that you learned or re-learned that helped you shape Jackie in her re-launch and in her next place.
[15:49] Jackie Woodside: So, great. Such a great question. And I’ll tell you the one thing that kind of drove me forward, two things. One is, I had written a personal mission statement 10 years prior, and had been sitting on it, wouldn’t tell anybody. But I had this sense and this knowing, and I’ll tell you in a minute what my mission statement was and is. So that was number one, is I had been sitting on this pretty powerful mission statement for 10 years and doing nothing about it. And the second was, when I went away on a couple of those silent retreats, and just was writing and journaling and asking for guidance, direction and wisdom. There’s one phrase kept coming to me, “Teach what you know.” “Teach what you know.” And so, I had to look and what I finally hearkened that back to, so what does that mean, “Teach what you know.” When I had to hearken that back to was my mention statement. ‘Cause my mission statement really, when I got it, I knew it was who I am but I was afraid to step into the power of it.
[16:48] Jackie Woodside: And so, the mission statement is, “I am a torchbearer for a vision of a world transformed, illuminating freedom, fulfillment and passion, igniting the flame of infinite possibility for the human spirit.” And so, that really is my passion, and my mission is so much about igniting the flame of infinite possibility with and for humanity, teaching elevation of consciousness. So, what I saw about myself, I guess, as I recovered from my depression was that I am that, I have that capability to be a teacher, to be a torchbearer. A torchbearer is someone who is willing to stand out, to be a front-runner, to lead a movement, if you will. And I guess, slowly and sheepishly, I started saying, “I am that,” and stepping into that, and then creating curriculums, and writing books, and teaching seminars, and doing all the things that I do now. A little bit, a little bit, a little bit at a time. And really embodying the truth of that mission statement.
[17:53] Pei: Wow. You go ahead. We had a question at the same time. [17:58] Joel: You said, “Teach what you know.” And I think we, I know that the ReLaunch audience, our listeners, have heard that idea before “Teach what you know” but you know what, sometimes it can be staggering, and it can be stifling, to some folks, so can you expand on what that means? [18:22] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, sure.
[18:23] Joel: Or give some ideas or some possibilities here because I think that’s a familiar language, but gosh it can stall some people. [18:34] Jackie Woodside: Yeah. Well I can tell you what it means to me.
[18:38] Joel: Okay.
[18:38] Jackie Woodside: For sure, and that there’s just a deep seated belief that I have, that we are all here with a message, with a purpose that we have come here with that most often gets communicated, or expressed through us, through our desires, through those things that we most love and care about, want to talk about, want to be engaged with. And most often people are afraid to really pursue and express those desires for all of those same reasons, “What would people think of me?” “I can’t really make a living at that”, “What if I don’t succeed at it?” when it’s something that’s that meaningful to you, so when I say “Teach what you know” what it means to me is teach your passion, feel your passion. And again that sounds so trite, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of coaching clients over the years and that passion has been so many different things, for some you know it’s been building houses and having a high end construction company, for other people it’s been teaching and speaking for other people, it has even been, I worked with one of my, I love this person, a coaching client of mine, who was a drag queen and that was her expression in life, was to be in Vaudeville and do Burlesque as a performer and I was like “Hey man, you know just bring it on and shine your light.”
[20:03] Jackie Woodside: So we have all have this place inside, that flame of infinite possibility, but we get tied down to this default life, you know of what think we have to do and getting the job and earning the career and doing all these things, and yeah you’ve gotta be a responsible adult, but here’s the thing what I’ve learned, when you step up to your passion and your desire, it’s like the whole universe steps up to meet you. People look at me and they say, “Jackie, how have you done what you’ve done, you’ve been on tv, you given a TED Talk, you’ve published two books, all in the last five, six, seven years. How have you done that?” and honestly, I have no idea. [laughter]
[20:44] Pei: Hey!
[20:47] Jackie Woodside: So, how do I do it? I take one step forward.
[20:48] Joel: Great, no practical takeaways whatsoever.
[20:51] Jackie Woodside: Well, hey. This is totally practical. Move toward your desire, I took one step forward, right? So I taught one class and it went really well and then somebody else said “Can you do this for us?” and I taught another class and it went really well. And the whole thing of doing a TED Talk, here’s how I did my TED Talk.
[21:12] Pei: I was just gonna ask, at least tell us…
[21:17] Jackie Woodside: And I just say, it’s divine providence, here’s how it happened. I met someone who was a mutual friend, we met once for coffee, she knew, she was a videographer and I mentioned that I needed video assets. She volunteered to come to a gig to video me, created a beautiful video for me, for free, asked for nothing in return. A year later, I never spoke to her again. I mean I sent a thank you note but other then that, never spoke to her again, nice connection. A year later she got a TED license, a TEDx license, and contacted me and when she asked me to speak at her TED event she said “Jackie, you were the first person I thought of when I got my TED license. Would you come and speak at my TED event?” You know, so how do you plan that out? My first corporate gig doing corporate consulting I got while speaking on a platform at a church, delivering a Sunday sermon, someone walking through the receiving line said “I think we need to talk” because one of the examples I’d used in my sermon about doing some consulting work. And then she hired me and it’s literally been tens of thousands dollars of consulting money.
[22:26] Pei: Wow!
[22:26] Jackie Woodside: Now, if you were gonna do a business plan on how to get consulting contracts, probably delivering sermons would not show up on that business plan.
[22:34] Joel: Yeah, that’s true. [laughter] Hey Pei, you’ve got your hand up.
[22:37] Pei: Well, I just wanna compliment here, Jackie here, I know things are falling in place and I totally agree with that, but at least you took the initiative, you stood in front of people and like you said you delivered a message in front of a group and then they said “Hey can you talk about that in my other group?” So you at least stepped out and started speaking.
[23:06] Joel: Right. The universe opened doors for her, however she had to put herself in a position to where she was walking through them, actually taking steps. Okay, we’re coming in for a landing here but I wanna cover a few more things with you Jackie, I really appreciate your time here. So in your book, we’re talking about ‘Calming the Chaos’ here, in chapter 2 you talk about setting your intention for change. And so your intention was set on a variety of things, which some happened that you did intend for and some things just came your way that no one could plan for. So I appreciate you sharing that, but in the very next chapter, you talk about that there’s more to life than just getting things done, and I think we need to hear a little bit about that chapter too because as ambitious as everyone is who tunes into this show, and then I am, and Pei, and you are as well, yeah, there’s more to life than getting things done. So, what’s the nugget in that chapter that you were trying to communicate?
[24:13] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, so what I’m trying to communicate here is everyone is so busy. Everyone is on overwhelm. Everyone’s got more to do than they know what to do with. And what’s happening in our culture is that having it all has been up-leveled by doing it all. And if we just keep saying, “Oh yeah, sure, I can do that. Yes, I’ll do that. Sure, I’ll do that.” I say if you’re a ‘yes’ to everything, you will be a ‘no’ to your peace of mind. So, we’re a culture that is just, has all kinds of material luxuries and material goods, but we are impoverished when it comes to meaningful time.
[24:49] Joel: Yes.
[24:50] Jackie Woodside: It’s so true, time to sit on the porch and connect with your spouse, or play ball in the backyard with your kids instead of schlepping them off to the next activity and the next event. Time to sit around the dinner table, or the breakfast table as a family. Lay on the couch on a Sunday morning and have coffee and read the paper with your spouse and share ideas back and forth about stories. Remember, I don’t know how old you guys are, but I remember my grandmother, that they would use this phrase, “Let’s go call on someone.” And that meant they would go visit. And it didn’t mean they’d pick up the phone and call to see if they’re free, they didn’t text, people would just stop by. And that sense of deep-seated, meaningful connection in our fast paced world has really gone by the wayside.
[25:39] Jackie Woodside: So, one of the things that I want people to think about in calming the chaos in their lives, is that how you are using your time, if you are just filling it with activities, but you forget to bring the essential question of your human being-ness, meaning your heart, your soul, your values, what you love, who you love, and what you care about, to your day-to-day existence, you’re never gonna calm the chaos because the chaos is inside of you.
[26:07] Joel: And you probably go on to talk about that later in one of the following chapters where you’re talking about the awareness of how you use time and being time conscious, or understanding your time consciousness, yes?
[26:23] Jackie Woodside: Yes, yes, yeah, one of the things that we all walk around saying… I ask people in workshops, I’ve asked thousands of people this question: What do you most often say about time? And the answer 99.9% of the time is, “I don’t have enough.” So when you’re walking around with this scarcity consciousness, or poverty consciousness, and by consciousness I just mean the way that you’re seeing something. You’re walking around with this belief, this unconscious belief that is driving your day-to-day experience, I don’t have enough of this resource. That is absolutely setting you up for an experience of difficulty, stress, and strife. So, I just don’t buy into that, and that’s our mass consciousness. We’re… It’s the water we’re swimming in. So, I just, I really work hard at attending, being mindful of how I speak of my time. So, instead of saying, “I’m so busy.” Which is another distinction in the book. I say, “I’m never busy, always productive getting involved in things I care about.”
[27:25] Pei: Wow! That’s…
[27:26] Jackie Woodside: Yeah, that’s one of the distinctions in the book, just stop saying, “I’m so busy.” And the other is stop saying, “I don’t have time for that.” I just say, “I’m not choosing to use my time that way.” Now, I don’t say that when my mom says, “Come over for a visit.” [laughter]
[27:40] Jackie Woodside: Not the time to say, “I’m not gonna choose to use my time that way.” But it’s how I speak to myself really.
[27:45] Joel: Right.
[27:46] Jackie Woodside: My inner talk is, “Look, I’ve gotta make choices with the resource I have of time, and I wanna use choices that lift my soul, stimulate my mind and fill my heart.”
[27:57] Joel: Perfect, very well said. Talking with Jackie Woodside today, speaking of time. Her first book,” What if it’s Time for a Change?” And the book that we spent a little bit of time talking about today, “Calming the Chaos.” “Calming the Chaos.” Of course, we’ll have the links on the broadcast show notes that accompanies this episode, plus all of the go-to social media places. Pei?
[28:22] Pei: Yeah, and just go to relaunchshow.com/323 and I actually, I got one short question I have to get out of Jackie.
[28:33] Joel: Let’s do it.
[28:34] Pei: I mean, being a doctor and all, I really wanna know, so how is your arm and I guess you’re off those depression and…
[28:43] Jackie Woodside: Yes.
[28:43] Pei: ADD medications.
[28:45] Jackie Woodside: Yes, I no longer take medications at all, any of them, so I’m really grateful for that.
[28:50] Joel: Yeah.
[28:51] Jackie Woodside: And I played yesterday four hours of women’s basketball and I’m a righty, and my right arm was just fine. I play racquetball three or four times a week, and sometimes I call it my Friday night play til you drop. Some people drink til you drop on Friday nights. I play racquetball till I drop. [chuckle]
[29:09] Jackie Woodside: I can play two, three hours at a time, two, three times a week and I am fine.
[29:13] Joel: That’s probably a lot of cost savings in your habit over others on a Friday…
[29:18] Jackie Woodside: Yes.
[29:19] Joel: Till they drop, or…
[29:20] Jackie Woodside: Yes, that’s right, I’ve recovered from all of my addictions other than working really hard at sports and being on the court, being a gym rat.
[29:26] Joel: Understood.
[29:27] Jackie Woodside: And that’s ____.
[29:29] Joel: Jackie, welcome back here on the Relaunch Show any time when you have your next book ready to go. We’d really appreciate it if you’d make the Relaunch Show part of your stop on your book tour. We’d be delighted to have you.
[29:44] Jackie Woodside: Thank you, it’s really been a blast, I’ve enjoyed talking with you guys, thank you.
[29:47] Joel: Have a wonderful rest of your day, bye-bye.
[29:48] Jackie Woodside: You bet, you too.[/su_spoiler][/su_accordion]